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Thank you for taking an intervention. Does the Member recognise the following? I have not yet had the chance to speak, so he may not, but I inform the Chamber that I have been contacted by a member of the trans community, a trans woman — a man who transitioned into a woman many years ago. That trans woman is very…
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Could you clarify your ruling on that point of order? From what you are saying, it sounds as though it was the tone that Ms Sheerin was launching across the Chamber that will be looked at.
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for someone to misgender a presenter at our Committee in the Chamber and follow that up by saying that they accept that trans people should not be abused?
Presumably, that is in a situation where they have asked for support. I mean, how could you subject somebody to talking therapy or counselling against their will? They just would not participate I will move on. Let me say what I also said last week: no one should be subjected to attack, violence, harassment or…
I thank the Member for giving way. The Member sat in the same presentation as I did this morning, so he is aware of the detail that I reflected on with regard to the rise in transphobic hate crime in this part of the world. Does the Member acknowledge that the language that we use here can have an impact there? That…
OK. I will move on. In the modern era, there is less gender stereotyping in society. Boys and girls and men and women can choose from a much wider range of interests, professions and lifestyles than would have been the case in the past. They should not be stereotyped. Society has become more accommodating and varied.…
I appreciate that the Member is being generous. For the avoidance of doubt and to give the Minister absolute clarity, that may mean discussing an amendment at Consideration Stage, but this is not Consideration Stage. This is the Second Stage, and we are considering the principles of the Bill. I have said that the…
To prove the point that the Minister has just made, if, as the Bill sponsor says, he maintains that conversion therapy, as it is defined, takes place in a treatment setting, why has he included in clause 4(1)(c) "a treatment, or purported treatment"? He is catching it all. In clause 4: "a person provides or carries…
I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Is it not fascinating that, in his response, Mr Tennyson said that he is happy to provide clarity but did not say that he is happy to change that. He is not happy to amend it so that we can make it crystal clear. Providing clarity? He has been trying to do that for all of…
I assure the Member that we are very focused on the wording in his Bill, and that is what we find problems with. He has set a very low threshold for those three new offences, which could mean that someone could reflect on what parents, teachers, youth workers, ministers, pastors — people who are trying to provide…
I genuinely wonder whether the Minister has listened at all in the debate or in the engagements that we have had over the media, because, time and time again, I have explained the drafting structure of the Bill. I understand that the Minister cannot wrap his head around that based on an ordinary meaning of the Bill. I…
Sorry, I know that the Member is trying to move on, but this, for me, is the key point in the Bill. I do not agree with what Mr Tennyson said about the definition of "conversion therapy". It does not need to be in a clinical or therapeutic setting. How do we know that? We know it because clause 4 defines "conversion…
Again, the Member is wrong because, in that circumstance, the behaviour would not amount to therapy. Setting that aside, the staff member in question would be making a determination about implementing policy and accessing single-sex spaces on the basis of the person's sex and not their gender. That is not conversion…