All of Mr Paul Frew’s imported questions, contributions and motions in this mandate, newest first, including those assessed as not flagged, uncertain or not yet analysed.
I thank the Member for her intervention. That is what we are striving for: we are trying to get common ground to see exactly where we can go with regard to the Bill. However, if we do not like a Bill, we do not like a Bill, and we will explain why we do not like it. My colleague was highlighting the differences…
I believe that that danger is real — I really do — and it is purely down to the definitions in the Bill. Clause 6(2) specifies: "A reference to a victim’s sexual orientation includes the victim having no sexual orientation towards other persons." That goes to the point that I raised earlier. Mr O'Neill states: "The NI…
Uncertain: close callGender, sexuality, abortion and related social issuesCriteria met: Dog-whistle messaging.
When did you not hear me, Mr Deputy Speaker, so that I can go back? I jest. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for that intervention and instruction. The subject is very important because there are people out there who are hurting. What we find with the Bill is that we are in danger of not helping that hurt or rescuing or…
There may well be genders out there that, the vast majority of people in this country think, are unreasonable. That is why the unreasonableness test or the "reasonable persons" test in this regard is highly problematic. It is not what the reasonable person thinks; it may be someone who is suffering in fear, alarm and…
Uncertain: close callGender, sexuality, abortion and related social issuesCriteria met: Dog-whistle messaging.
I thank the Member for his intervention. I agree with that. How would the judiciary do that? How would the ordinary individual who could fall foul of those offences know what a victim considers their gender identity to be? How then can they measure or assess whether they are suppressing it?
The definition given by the Bill sponsor for sexual orientation and gender identity is at clause 6: "6.—(1) In this Act, a reference to a victim’s sexual orientation or gender identity includes— (a) what the victim considers it to be, and (b) what the person considers it to be." That is the only definition of sexual…
I thank the Bill sponsor for that, but when he talks about conversion therapies in that regard, he is talking about coaching, instruction, counselling and any form of talking therapy. If that is deemed to have caused "fear, alarm or distress" to the victim, that person will be in trouble with the law. Here is the…
The Member makes a good point. It was well rehearsed, so I will not have to repeat it. He is absolutely right, and that is just one of our concerns. Before I finish on religious practices and why I think that the Bill would do massive damage to freedom of thought, conscience and religion, I will say that any preacher,…
I thank the Minister for his intervention. Do we know what the definition of "conversion therapy" is and whether it includes a definition of "instruction"? I will read clause 4(1) again. A person commits an offence: "if the person provides or carries out ... instruction" of another person. That is how wide the offence…
Uncertain: weak signalReligion and belief (including people of no religion), churches, faith communities and religious prejudice (including antisemitism and anti-Muslim prejudice)
Yes, I agree with that. I fear for some Members here who want to rush through legislation, even at this point in the mandate. It does not bode well for the future, let me tell you. If a Bill goes through the House to become an Act and the media and the papers pick up on it in a year's time or in two years' time, doing…
I do not think that we can be sure that it will not fall within that because of the very wide definition of conversion therapy, which includes "coaching or instruction". Remember, the Bill talks about "a person" who commits an offence. It is not a therapist or a doctor but "a person". That includes everyone, no matter…
I thank the Member for her intervention. Why not do away with Second Stage for all Bills? I am standing because it is really important to define the principles of the Bill by the definitions in the Bill. That is really important. How can you debate the principles of the Bill if you cannot be sure of the definitions of…
I thank the Member for his intervention. I was going to go further than that, because that covers not only the coaching aspect but the religious instruction aspect, so it covers the two elements of clause 4(b). Let me go on to "instruction". Who is it that gives instruction? A parent. Any parent who does not…
Uncertain: close callGender, sexuality, abortion and related social issuesCriteria met: Dog-whistle messaging.
I thank the Member for his intervention. This is really important. If someone in the team, whether it is a female team or a male team, goes to the coach, who does not have the conversation with them or maybe even dismisses them because they cannot talk to the matter, referring them instead to a safeguarding officer,…
I thank the Member for his intervention, but his own Bill says: "a person provides or carries out conversion therapy", which is "coaching or instruction" in relation to another person. That is what his Bill states. If the wording were "coaching in a treatment centre" or "coaching in a therapeutic setting", that would…
I thank the Member for his intervention. I will certainly get onto the suppression piece, because it alarms me, too. We could walk through the Bill tonight and be given some assurances and safeguards by the Bill sponsor as we do so, but the fundamental shape of the Bill means that it is beyond rescue. I will get into…