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I thank the Member for his response. To be absolutely clear, I accept his comments about people perhaps not wanting to be identified specifically, but let me develop that argument a little bit. He could have asked, for example, "Do you live in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, England, Scotland or Wales?" and…
The Member will be aware, because he has read the consultation document, that we did not ask individual respondents for their address. That was intentional, because those with lived experience of conversion practice in particular find even talking about their experience to be so traumatic that they wanted to have…
As we get further into the debate, I concur with some of my colleagues on this side of the House. My colleague from Upper Bann said at the start of the debate that it should be respectful. I will add to that and say that it should be honest and brave. Some of the crimes that Mr Tennyson, the Bill sponsor, highlighted…
FlaggedGender, sexuality, abortion and related social issuesCriteria met: Dog-whistle messaging, Controversy escalation.
I have let you in twice, to be fair, and I know that you will come back anyway when you summarise. It is important that the Bill move to Committee Stage, that we allow the proper scrutiny to ensure that it is robust and fit for purpose and where time is given to understand the complexities of the issue, as the Bill's…
If you are sincere, we will see whether you follow through and vote to allow the Bill to go to Committee Stage, where those things can be debated and legislation can be improved. I think that your intent is to knock out the legislation completely because you do not want it to progress. That is in the absence of your…
The thresholds that have to be met for a criminal conviction or a case to proceed are clearly set out in the legislation. If you were sincere about getting the answers, Minister, you would have met the Bill's sponsor over the summer when you had the opportunity to do so. Why did you wait until this stage to raise…
I thank the Member for giving way. I believe that she is sincere in saying that that is what she believes the intent of the Bill to be. However, can she answer the questions that have been posed by Members on this side of the House about how those family conversations or pastoral conversations — things that are said…
This is an important issue of personal dignity and equality and the urgent, undeniable need to completely ban the cruel, discredited and deeply harmful practice known as conversion therapy. Conversion therapy is an archaic practice rooted in intolerance in the absence of any medical or scientific evidence. That is…
There may well be areas in which the Bill can be strengthened or clarified. However, I will not accept the argument that, just because it is difficult to draw a line, we should draw no line at all. Freedom of religion and expression matter, as does family life, of course, but so too does the freedom of an LGBT young…
If you were asking me that about any other party, I would probably say that I found it odd. However, when it comes to the DUP, I am not quite sure that I find anything odd at all.
If you agree that the practice should be banned, as the DUP says that it does because it believes that it is unhelpful to people and inhibits their development, and if there is a Bill to introduce such a ban, the way to protect and change that Bill is to pass it tonight and to look at it at Committee Stage. It would…
That is literally what the draft legislation is trying to do: to legislate for what a person believes. If you read the Bill, you see that it refers to the gender that a person believes themselves to be. You say that we cannot legislate for what someone believes, but that is literally what you have just stood up and…
I rise to support the principles of the Conversion Practices (Criminalisation) Bill. I do so because there is a very simple principle at the heart of the debate, which is this: there is nothing wrong with being gay. There is nothing to cure and nothing to fix. You cannot pray the gay away. That last line may sound a…
We now turn to consent, which is a very important principle. Consent is an issue that is complex and contested. For example, there are things in law that you can consent to and things that you cannot. This will upset some Members, but criminal law sets a threshold that means that you can consent to a very minor…
I am happy to intervene if the Member wants to take an intervention. To be clear, when we were developing the Bill, we looked at having two intent tests: an intent to change and suppress sexual orientation or gender identity; and an intent to cause harm. The problem is that mens rea — a person's mental state when they…
I thank the Member for the intervention. For absolute clarity for Hansard, for the people watching and for everyone in the Chamber, there is absolutely no requirement in the Bill — none whatsoever — for an intention to cause harm or even recklessness that caused harm. It does not exist — nada, nil, zilch.
I appreciate the Member's giving way. In response to the Bill sponsor's remarks that an alleged defendant would need to have intended to cause harm, I cannot find a line anywhere in clause 1 that states that the alleged defendant would, as Mr Tennyson claims, need to have intended to cause harm. Can Mr Burrows find…
I respect the Deputy Speaker's judgement on that. The totality of the fatal flaws, line by line, means that the principles are upended. On the face of it, the Bill looks to protect people, but it actually exposes them to harm.