Debate contribution: Ireland and Northern Ireland — A Joint Census Publication 2021-2022

Debate contribution by Mr Matthew O'Toole on 24 November 2025.

MLA

Mr Matthew O'Toole

Party at the time

Social Democratic and Labour Party

Date

24 November 2025

Type

Debate contribution

Business

Private Members' Business

Heading

Ireland and Northern Ireland — A Joint Census Publication 2021-2022

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 5254592

Read the official Assembly record

Text

Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I am pleased to be able to wind up on this amendment, having chatted to my colleague Colin McGrath about some of the points that we wish to make. Part of the challenge with the debate, initially, is that the motion is almost banal. I mean no offence to those who tabled it, because it is important stuff, but it is anodyne. It is almost just a description of something that is, theoretically, good. We have tried to put a bit of forward-based intent and policy direction into it through our amendment. It is a banal motion, although it notes something really important in more cross-border data-gathering, but it has to be said that we have seen a remarkable overreaction to it from some unionist politicians — not all of them. I exclude from that the Ulster Unionists, who tabled an amendment from their constitutional perspective with which I do not entirely agree. I do not agree with everything that the previous Member who spoke said, but at least they engaged with the need for more cross-border data-gathering and put their own perspective on it. From the DUP and TUV, we heard almost a long march of hostility to the idea of talking about greater cross-border data-gathering. That is genuinely a tragedy, not just for the people of the North of the island but for unionism. I am one of the people who Pádraig Delargy talked about. Almost exactly 24 years ago, I left this island to go to university across the water and did not come back for basically another 20 years. When I did, I did so to become a politician here. I would not necessarily recommend that as a career move for which to come back to the island of Ireland, if any impressionable 20-something Irish people out there are listening. Having said that, I did come back. One reason why some do not come back, if they are from the North, is that when they turn on their TV — or, more likely, their devices — and look at politics, they hear statements — I mean this with the greatest respect to Mr Gaston, who put his point across with some passion, and Members of the DUP — talking about, my God, the idea of framing cross-border data-gathering as something with a kind of hex that has to be guarded against because there demons lie and we are on a slippery slope to a united Ireland if we even talk about cross-border data-gathering. If the motion were about east-west data gathering, I, as someone who spent most of my career working in London as a civil servant in the UK Government, would not be saying, "No, we cannot possibly gather that data or look at UK-wide statistics, because that threatens my aspiration for a new Ireland". I do not think that. Even after we have a new Ireland and are back inside the European Union, we will have to work really closely on these islands for all the reasons why the Good Friday Agreement enshrines partnership across these islands. It enshrines the British identity on this island. We are also neighbours. Our services and lives will still be entwined in many ways. I have no difficulty in acknowledging that. It is a tragedy for unionism that, in the current constitutional set-up, some unionists cannot do that. Of course, I do not mean all unionists in the Chamber, because the Ulster Unionists tabled a very constructive amendment. I may not necessarily agree with it, but it at least endeavours to engage with the debate. I genuinely believe that, whether or not we have a new Ireland — I believe that we are moving in that direction — it is important that we maximise every opportunity to improve services on a cross-border basis. Frontier workers are not a threat. Those frontier workers are a real, everyday fact of life on the island. They are not just in Newry and Derry but in Belfast. My brother is a frontier worker. He works for a bank that is headquartered in Dublin, and he travels up and down and works remotely. That is a fact of life. He has to navigate all the bureaucratic complexities that that involves. We have talked about public services and public policy challenges. It is vital that we get that right, whatever the constitutional future is. I also say this, however: Ministers here, including Ministers from the party that tabled the motion, need to take responsibility for driving those things forward. The motion does not call on a Minister. The Minister with responsibility for the census is, of course, John O'Dowd, the Finance Minister, who will be in front of us tomorrow for questions. He, or, indeed, the First Minister and deputy First Minister, would be best placed to answer questions on how the Executive could make use of that census. Rather than having a general debate that takes note of its existence, we need to see responsibility-taking in the Executive for driving that agenda forward, particularly from those parties who say that they are committed to it. That brings me on to my next point. Without prejudice to the constitutional future — I say that as a new Irelander — I also say this: the census, by itself, will not get us to a new Ireland. We will have to persuade people and lead that debate. We will have to explain it to people who are — I heard Members from the Alliance Party talk about them — open-minded, unconvinced and persuadable on the subject. They want to hear about the benefits of change. They do not just want to hear about the fact that it will inevitably happen. We need to sell it. Even if we are not selling it, and we want to maintain the constitutional status quo, we should all be able to embrace the huge potential of greater cross-border working. I commend my party's amendment and, indeed, the motion.

1,006 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

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