Debate contribution: Ambulance Handovers

Debate contribution by Mr Colin McGrath on 24 March 2025.

MLA

Mr Colin McGrath

Party at the time

Social Democratic and Labour Party

Date

24 March 2025

Type

Debate contribution

Business

Opposition Business

Heading

Ambulance Handovers

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 4864732

Read the official Assembly record

Text

Thank you very much, Principal Deputy Speaker. I am glad that we have had the opportunity to have this debate and that we have heard from all sides of the House on the issue. Perhaps the Health Minister expected me to raise it during Question Time last week, but we went down a different route, because it was better to give the issue a proper airing through a motion that would give us a full hour and a half to debate it. It is really important because, as Diane Dodds eloquently put it, sick people are looking to get into hospital, but they cannot do so. We can all agree on that. I and, I am sure, many Members were contacted by a number of organisations about today's debate. They highlighted the problem that people are getting sicker because they cannot get access to emergency care. Ultimately, people are dying because ambulances are not arriving for them in a timely manner and they cannot get access to treatment. I give a big shout-out to our paramedics. They, along with the whole network of staff throughout the Ambulance Service, work to the best of their ability and beyond it, but they are absolutely constrained. Those highly trained, highly skilled individuals in our community log on for work, get into the back of an ambulance, sit with one patient for eight hours and then come out and log off again. That does not utilise the skills that we have trained them to have or give them the opportunity to perform their life-saving techniques. I recently visited the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service and got a good snapshot. There were screens showing us exactly what the situation was at any moment. When I was there, there were 21 ambulances sitting outside emergency departments and 22 people waiting for an ambulance. I am not thinking about working through all the solutions; it is not rocket science. Those who were waiting could not get an ambulance because the ambulances were sitting outside the hospitals. By asking a question for written answer, I found out that, in the past five years, 97,000 people's conditions deteriorated whilst they were waiting for an ambulance. In other words, their category was upgraded because their condition got more serious as they waited for an ambulance. One has only to think about the cost to our health service. We are bringing sicker people to hospitals because it is taking us so long to go and get them. Think of the money that could be saved. The Northern Ireland Audit Office did a wonderful job of putting lots of flesh on that bone and telling us exactly what the cost to the system is. There were two amendments to our motion. From an Opposition perspective, they do, somewhat, speak to the situation that we see in our Executive. The Executive are our Government. Our Government are charged with coming up with solutions to the problems that we face and with the proper and effective delivery of public services. In this matter, however — a matter of life and death — it is about health outcomes and responding to urgent calls. We have one Executive party producing one view in an amendment and another party producing a different view in another amendment. Both amendments obfuscate the matter. In some respects, they offer a bit of grandma and apple pie to the situation and will not result in anything being changed. I am a bit bewildered that the amendments were accepted, because our motion clearly asks for one thing and one thing only: it is about the Ambulance Service and the W45 policy. We said, "Let us deal with ambulance handovers. Let us smooth that process and get them back out on the road and into the communities".

That speaks to some of the problem. It is possible to fix some of the problem and let that contribute to solving the overall problems that there are. If the other way to look at this is to say that you cannot fix any of it until you have a solution for the entire system, we will wait years and years before there will be any solution. Why will we wait years and years? We have been waiting for years and years. How many of us here were a lot younger — much younger than we are today — when we first heard that there were problems with people getting out of hospital, with domiciliary care and with patient flow? The issue is nothing new. It is not something that has arisen in the past year or two. It has been happening for more than a decade. Where are the solutions? We are still waiting for them. What happens as a result of our still waiting, and why are we debating the Ambulance Service today? People are dying. It is not just me who is saying that. The Audit Office is saying it as well. People are dying because they cannot get an ambulance. Ninety-five-year-old grandmothers are lying in the street for six or seven hours waiting for an ambulance, yet our Executive say, "Let's fix the whole problem. It's about patient flow here, and we've to fill domiciliary care there, and we've to train staff there". I cannot remember the exact figure, but I think that it would take over £40 million to resolve the issues with domiciliary care. We are being told that we cannot get £2 million or £3 million for our suggested model, yet we are being told that the whole system should be fixed. One part alone of that solution will cost over £40 million. That is why we have been driven to the point of talking about what has happened in London. Its Ambulance Service recognised that a problem existed, and it said that it could not wait any longer to resolve it. It has now managed to reduce its category 2 response times. It has cut them in half, from 50 minutes down to 25 minutes. Members may not know what category 2 cases are. Category 2 cases comprise acute strokes, heart attacks, significant breathing problems and serious trauma. The London Ambulance Service introduced the W45 policy and cut its category 2 response times in half. Our category 2 response times are worse than what London's were, and it managed to cut them in half by introducing its model. Is it a perfect model for the whole system? No. Do I want to see the whole system fixed? Yes. Is the whole system going to get fixed in the next three or four months? No. I was told in London that it took three weeks to introduce the system.

I welcome the Minister's saying that, because I know that he is not waiting. I know that he constantly says that he does not have the money to deliver the projects that he needs to deliver to be able to fix the whole system. That is why I say that if he is not going to get the money to fix the whole system, there is no point in parties tabling amendments that state, "Fix all of the system". It is important to put into context why we are suggesting the W45 model. It is not that we are saying that we should ignore everything else. I am a realist. I know that the Health Minister is not going to get £200 million, £300 million, £400 million or £500 million simply to address the issues that need to be addressed in order to sort out all the problems that exist. Based on what we saw in London, we estimate that a couple of million pounds would address the problem. I know that everything that we suggest requires money and that the Minister asks, "Where will it come from?". If we can be told that a couple of million pounds cannot be found to enable us to lift a 95-year-old grandmother off the ground and that we cannot help people in our community who suffer a heart attack or who collapse from a stroke but that people can be told, "About an hour is time enough to get to you", we have even bigger problems than patient flow and other issues. We will support the amendments, because how could we not vote to support fixing all the problems? We have, however, brought a little bit of focus to one specific issue. I do not know how amendment No 2 was accepted, when it completely rewrites the meaning of the motion. We all understand and are passionate about the issue, and we are generally moving in the same direction. We want to see our Ambulance Service be able to be responsive in our communities and to be there when people lift the phone and dial 999. We want people to know that help is coming, and I hope that that can be the case.

1,491 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Assessment

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Assessed 21 October 2026 at 12:11 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

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