Debate contribution: Paramilitary Groups: Transition from Violence and Crime

Debate contribution by Mr Robbie Butler on 10 March 2025.

MLA

Mr Robbie Butler

Party at the time

Ulster Unionist Party

Date

10 March 2025

Type

Debate contribution

Business

Private Members' Business

Heading

Paramilitary Groups: Transition from Violence and Crime

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 4841698

Read the official Assembly record

Text

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Before I reach into the motion, it is really important that we listen to what each of us says, because we have been living here all our lives and have all experienced the Troubles in a different way. Some of us have served and put our lives at risk daily, some of us have taken other measures and some of us have an opinion, and that came across in spades today. Every one of those opinions is valid to the community from which they come, because we do not choose the family that we are born into. We are born into a family and born into experiences, and we bear the collective trauma that had an impact right across this little country for so many years. I am very aware that some Members of this Chamber had that wrought on them, so I will be as careful as I can with my words. The Alliance Party's motion would be fine. However, to look at where we are and where we have come from and not learn from the past is to do it all again, rinse and repeat, because it is a contradiction. Everybody in the Chamber and every party is facing in the same direction, whether it is Sinn Féin, the DUP, Alliance, the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Party or the TUV. Nobody is standing here and saying that there is any place for any paramilitary in 2025. Most of us will agree that there was not any place at all, but we have a lived reality in Northern Ireland, and if it was as simple as applying the law — the Alliance Party has held the Justice portfolio for 10 years; Minister Long has been there for almost four years — and I wish it was that simple, we would not be having this debate tonight. In fact, one of my earliest debates was on the separated prisoner regime in Maghaberry. We tabled a motion, and the Alliance Party voted with Sinn Féin to say, "Let's have an independent expert look at it". With hindsight, that was probably the right approach, because you have to talk to people. I was at an event two or three years ago to mark the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement.

Not at the moment. I will give way in a wee second, if that is OK. There were a couple of big players in that room. However, listen to the former leader of the DUP: they asked him about his chief regrets over the years, and he said, "I wish that we had started talking sooner". Talking is important, but listening is more important, because good practice has happened, and we are not where we were, but neither are we where we could be. I will let the Member come in.

This is a Chamber, and I am sure that the Minister could have come here as an MLA and made statements. It would not have been the first time that a Minister has said, "I am speaking on behalf of my party, as a Minister or as the leader of a party". That is absolutely fine. The Minister excuses herself very often because of operational reasons. In reality, it is very plain to see where the Alliance Party is on the issue. It is not in a good space. We all want to get to the same place, which is why I do not want the debate to descend into finger-pointing; that would not be of any use. All that the motion needed to do was recognise the position that we are in and say, "It would be good to have an independent expert". As Mr Kelly rightly pointed out, it would not be about accepting the expert's findings; it would be about looking at what the expert pulls out of the conversation and saying yes or no, and, if it were not enough, we could act. Doug Beattie set out our position really well. I will give you an opportunity to redress this, Kellie, because I usually support you, but you stated that he said that there were good and bad paramilitaries. He absolutely did not say that. I ask you to retract that allegation.

I have worked with the gentleman for years. He has served his country and put his life at risk. He has led this party in holding to account paramilitaries of all hues, regardless of whether they say that they are orange or green. How long do I have, Mr Deputy Speaker?

OK. I am going to have to race through the next wee bit. I am sorry that the Member did not take that opportunity. I thought that she had misspoken, but obviously not.

That is fine; you have made your point very clearly. Brian Kingston called for the full rigour of the law. There is absolutely no doubt that we all agree. He asked for paramilitaries to leave the scene entirely. That is exactly what we all want to achieve, but unfortunately, as I said, we have a reality, whether we like it or not. None of them has any skin in the game except in our communities that we are trying to free from their grip. They need us to be honest in what we are saying. That is just the reality of it. Matthew O'Toole said that the debate was bewildering and head-scratching. He then used what I would call a Presbyterianism: the "pernicious presence of paramilitaries". That is the truth. We grew up with it. I was misquoted once as saying that I was close to joining. I was not close to joining; what I meant was that people whom I grew up with joined. I knew that they had joined, and I knew that they had been radicalised. Thankfully, I did not. I never even thought about it. However, I know that some of my friends did. Sadly, whether we like it or not, some of our young people are still being radicalised. I will finish by talking about the reality of not getting this right. Within the past couple of years, there was an attempt on the life of DCI Caldwell. There are two things that are wrong here, guys. One is the fact that, if we glorify the past, we will allow people to make those mistakes in the future. That is something that needs to be addressed. Secondly, if we do not get off on the right step now and get this right for future generations of our young people, which means supporting the Ulster Unionist Party's amendment, we will just —

— rinse and repeat.

1,116 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Assessment

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Assessed 21 October 2026 at 12:07 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

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