Debate contribution: Mental Illness: Reducing Stigma

Debate contribution by Mr Mike Nesbitt on 21 January 2025.

MLA

Mr Mike Nesbitt

Party at the time

Ulster Unionist Party

Date

21 January 2025

Type

Debate contribution (made as a minister)

Business

Private Members' Business

Heading

Mental Illness: Reducing Stigma

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 4749912

Read the official Assembly record

Text

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I begin by acknowledging and thanking the mover of the motion. I have known and worked with Órlaithí Flynn for long enough to know of her genuine passion for the area of mental ill health and of her willingness to set aside party politics to get consensus. We will see that at the end of the debate, because the House will not divide on the motion. I thank her for that. I thank my officials. As always, they have provided a comprehensive speaking note, but, on this occasion, because we are focusing so much on stigma, I will, with no disrespect to those who authored the speaking note, speak slightly differently. I also acknowledge the loss of loved ones, particularly of Mr Durkan and Ms Hunter. It is well documented that my main experience of mental ill health was with my wife, Lynda Bryans, who, 30 years ago, was diagnosed with clinical depression. It turned out to be antenatal depression. She was bearing our first son. Mr Deputy Speaker, if you do not mind, he turns 30 on Monday, so, if I say in advance, "Many happy returns, Peter J Nesbitt", I guarantee that he will not speak to me for at least another month.

Because of her experience, Lynda decided to talk about it and to confront that stigma. She gave many interviews in the media; she did many, many talks for community and mental health groups; and she was the face of the first Public Health Agency (PHA) campaign on mental health. On more than one occasion — not a huge number, but on more than one occasion — somebody has told me that they had read what my wife had to say about mental health, or that they had attended one of her talks, and then said, "I believe she saved my life". We do stuff, but we can never do enough. As is the case with suicide, the only acceptable number is zero. Another experience that I have had of mental ill health was as a victims' commissioner. Mention has been made of the great work that is done by community and voluntary groups. I saw that at first hand in their dealing with victims of our conflict. There is no stigma with those groups when people who have poor mental health come to them, because it is so common; it is probably the most toxic legacy of our Troubles. They understand it, they name the problem and they embrace it. They are role models for us and, yes, we can do more, working with them, to address the stigma. Where else should we be tackling the stigma? In schools. We work on the emotional well-being of pupils, but, some years ago, I read research from the Department of Education that stated that the majority of pupils surveyed said that they would be reluctant to discuss, or have some degree of difficulty in discussing, their mental ill health with a teacher or member of the non-teaching staff, and that they would be much more likely to engage with their peers. It is not a question of teaching and empowering a school-aged boy or girl to be a counsellor; it is about empowering them to know how to engage with a friend of theirs who they can see is clearly not quite right, and, potentially, signposting them to where help is available. We can also do it in the workplace. Mrs Dodds made the point about so many women being told that they should get over themselves and get on with it. When Lynda had her clinical depression, she was working for the BBC in London. She came home for a couple of days one time, and I knew that she was not right. I decided to phone her editor — I would love to name him, but I will not — to try to engage him and tell him that Lynda was not well. His response was, "Pour her a large Bushmills and make sure she catches up on her sleep". That was the advice. There are things that we can do, as MLAs and elected representatives. Some years ago, in my constituency, I started the Ards Suicide Awareness Group, because of people in the constituency who had lost loved ones to suicide. We raised some money and, with it, started commissioning safeTALK programmes in the big housing areas in Newtownards. They are for only a few hours and, again, do not make you a counsellor, but they give you the confidence to engage with people whom you think are behaving in a way that is worrying. You know the right questions to ask, and you know how to signpost them to help. Again, that safeTALK group and the people whom we were talking with in the housing areas in Newtownards were not talking about stigma any more. They were talking about how we could practically help people who were in trouble. Somebody said that I would mention funding, and, of course, it is an issue. I will say something gently to Mr Donnelly. He said, quite rightly, that the percentage of spend here on mental health issues is not as high as that in England, Scotland and Wales. Let us remember that percentages are not absolutes. Look at the absolute budgets. I will make a point that I have made before: independent analysis, not least that by the Fiscal Council, says that, for every £100 that NHS England spends, we need between £104 and £107 to deliver the same services. If we include social care, the figure would be £109. Under next year's Budget, it will be £101·50. There is a problem with the funding.

Yes.

It is a very complex area, as the Member will acknowledge. I believe that, if we achieve the shift left, it will take a lot of pressure off the acute hospitals, which is where the very expensive stuff takes place. It is incredibly complex, and we have seen that in the pressures on EDs over the winter. It is about the flow. There can be a blockage in the flow at any point from leaving the home to being discharged from the acute hospital. I wanted to make a point about public awareness campaigns. There has been something of a moratorium on advertising by the Department. I am exercised by that. I wonder, had we been doing the sort of advertising that we would normally do to promote vaccines, particularly the flu vaccine, whether the uptake would have been better and to what extent? I wonder whether it may be a false economy to save money by not advertising on specific issues. I have not come to a conclusion on that. I am aware of a successful businessman, who might have been a Fortune 500 chief executive. Many years ago, he famously said, "I spend millions every year on advertising and marketing, and I know that 50% of it is wasted. If I can ever find out which 50% that is, I will cut it out". Again, it is a very complex issue. I turn to public attitudes to mental health. An exploration was undertaken through the mental health survey to inform future work to address stigma and public awareness-raising activities. Mrs Dodds gave a definition of stigma. It is a complex, multifaceted phenomenon for which there is no universally agreed definition in health. There are many aspects to stigma, and therefore measuring it is complex. A multisectoral subgroup has been developed to progress work on communications and public awareness. Currently, it is focused on three key areas: research, best practice and targeting brand and digital campaigns. The Public Health Agency carried out a digital discovery exercise in April and May last year. The aim was to explore the role of digital tools in supporting mental health promotion, early intervention and prevention across Northern Ireland. More than 110 stakeholders engaged in that process through one-to-one interviews, focus groups and workshops. Reports from the digital discovery exercise have been shared with contributors and stakeholders. It provided an analysis of the current digital landscape for mental health promotion and early intervention. It outlines a road map for the phased development of a collaborative mental well-being platform.

I thank the Member. In trying to transform the laws of defamation, I tried to address issues with the internet, though not necessarily the specifics to which he refers. We all know about people searching what is commonly known as "Dr Google" — other search engines are available. That can lead to bad outcomes. Then there is the pressure, not least peer pressure, particularly for young people, on the internet. As politicians, not just here but in London and, indeed, probably globally, we are always playing catch-up with the advances in technology that necessarily include significant downsides that may pose significant health risks, particularly but not exclusively to young people. I am looking for a strong partnership approach, but it will need significant funding to progress all these plans. Discussions are under way with my departmental digital mental health forum to identify potential avenues to take all that forward. If we genuinely want to achieve the required improvements in our mental health services and ensure that the services that we provide can meet current and future demands, mental health services need real and sustained funding to ensure full delivery of the mental health strategy. As I said yesterday, for this year's action plan, we should have £42 million: we have £5·9 million. I will begin to conclude by encouraging all Members to support my efforts to achieve that outcome. In answer to the motion, I am open to all discussions, ideas and proposals that enable us to provide better mental health services for people across Northern Ireland. I want to deliver anti-stigma and anti-discrimination public awareness and education campaigns. Where collaboration with other Departments or community and voluntary sector partners can achieve that, we must take those opportunities. Again, I stress the incredibly valuable role played by community and voluntary sector organisations. I close as I began by thanking the Member for moving the motion.

1,695 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

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Assessed 21 October 2026 at 11:48 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

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