Debate contribution: Custodial Facilities: Protection of Rights and Safety

Debate contribution by Mr Doug Beattie MC on 20 January 2025.

MLA

Mr Doug Beattie MC

Party at the time

Ulster Unionist Party

Date

20 January 2025

Type

Debate contribution

Business

Private Members' Business

Heading

Custodial Facilities: Protection of Rights and Safety

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 4744250

Read the official Assembly record

Text

I beg to move

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Some will think that this is an unnecessary or contentious debate, but the reality is that the conversation on the matter is happening right across our society. Therefore, it is important that we, as legislators, debate the issue and lay out our position. I hope that the debate can be both robust and respectful while being mindful of the fact that we are talking about lived experiences right across Northern Ireland. The motion falls into three main areas, which I will cover during my contribution. First, it is important that we commit to providing support for minority communities right across Northern Ireland, including, for example, the Travelling community, the disabled, the elderly, the vulnerable and the LGBTQ+ communities, particularly in health, education, dealing with bullying and mental health. To vote to leave out any one of those groups is not in keeping with the inclusive Union that I aspire to. Therefore, I will not support the amendment. Secondly, the motion talks about "societal rights". There is a saying that goes, "The right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." What does that mean? It means that, at times, rights can be conflicting and that there is no automatic hierarchy in delivering what is best for the majority of people here in Northern Ireland or anywhere else. At times, there are genuine conflicts in rights, which are laid out in the Equality Act 2010. Over the past number of years, many women have felt that their rights have been undermined. Those issues can be best seen in spaces, sport and language. Do women deserve their own spaces, such as changing rooms, toilets, women-only groups, crisis centres, medical facilities, including hospital wards, and holding facilities, such as prisons? I believe that they do, and if you believe that they do, you should support the motion. Under normal circumstances, women should expect to be searched by women with only women present during said search.

Sport — not just elite sport but grassroots sport — is another area where women believe that the present system is against them. Transgender women, who are biologically male, have a physiological advantage over women. It is not fair. It should not be allowed. Sporting organisations should ensure that they do not allow it to happen. Imagine that you are a young woman now starting out in sport and wanting to reach the highest levels but, every time, being ignored or not selected due to the presence of a transgender woman who is bigger or stronger. Asking for a separation of rights between women and transgender women is not an unusual position. The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) outlines in its guide to single-sex service providers why it could and, I believe, should be the case for reasons of privacy or decency, to prevent trauma or to ensure health and safety. Lastly, the changing of language associated with women needs to stop. It is not "chest feeding"; it is "breastfeeding". It is not a "birthing person" but a "pregnant woman". It is not a "frontal birth"; it is a "vaginal birth". It is not "cis women"; it is just "women". Of course —.

I will not give way until I get through my speech, sorry. If I find time at the end, I will give way. Of course, the trans community exists. We must look to see how we can cater to, help and support that community. However, that should not be to the detriment of over 51% of the population in Northern Ireland, who are biological females. I suppose that, at this point, we must define what a woman is, because that is at the heart of the issue. A woman is an adult female or, as 'The Law Dictionary' puts it:

"The sex which conceives and gives birth to young."

If Members have a different definition, they can lay it out today. That brings us to the last point: where do we house biological males and females who identify as transgender if they are handed a custodial sentence? 'The United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners', known as the "Nelson Mandela rules", state:

"Men and women shall so far as possible be detained in separate institutions; in an institution which receives both men and women, the whole of the premises allocated to women shall be entirely separate".

Again, there is no legal policy on the issue. There are guidance notes, but they can be undermined by the courts; indeed, that is what happened in the most recent case, where a transgender woman who had been housed in Maghaberry was moved to Hydebank Wood following a court judgement.

I will not. Why was the person moved? According to the Justice Minister on 21 December 2024:

"It was a judge who ordered the committal to Hydebank. It was not my decision or that of my Department. I set the existing policy and approach which had led to them being housed in Maghaberry",

and

"A risk assessment was used to address any such concerns. This prisoner was held in Maghaberry, for example. If a judge had determined a different approach is needed, we'll look at that judgement and respond. It was a judge that ruled they should go to Hydebank, not the Northern Ireland Prison Service."

It is a mess. There needs to be proper policy from the Minister to give legal guidance to our judiciary, Police Service and Public Prosecution Service (PPS). The argument that all transgender detainees are given a risk assessment before committal is fair enough, but every individual who is committed receives a risk assessment. It is normal practice. A risk assessment is normally done by the prison staff and, where needed, by prison health professionals from the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust. It is normal. It happens quickly. The argument that Hydebank is a fully mixed male and female prison just does not add up. Yes, males and females undertake education, training or work detail together, but that is closely supervised by the Prison Service. However, living support and accommodation are completely segregated. Women are housed only with other women. Two of the landings have an open-door policy. On one of the landings, the doors are open 24 hours a day, with the inmates holding the keys. On another landing, the doors are open until 2200 hours each evening. Putting a biological male in that environment is, in my opinion, wrong and contrary to the Nelson Mandela rules. Nobody is saying that all transgender women are predatory, but, again, the very presence of a male in a space designed for women creates problems and, possibly, anxiety and stress for the women housed there. At no stage are those women consulted before a biological male is placed in their midst. Where does the confusion come from? In part, it is about our Justice Department failing to grasp the issues and continuing to send out mixed messaging. 'Supporting Change: A strategy for women and girls in or at risk of contact with the criminal justice system' states:

"For the purposes of this strategy, the term 'women' relates to female adults and girls, and those who identify as female or non-binary."

Under the Equality Act 2010, sex is a protected characteristic, as is gender reassignment: another conflict. The Act defines a man as "a male of any age" and a woman as "a female of any age", but it provides the ability to distinguish in service provision. Many will cite the gender recognition certificate (GRC) as a reason for transgender females and males to be housed in a male or female holding facility in accordance with how they identify, but nowhere in the GRC is gender-affirming surgery expected. Put simply, a transgender woman who still has male genitalia could be housed in a women's prison. That could be in the most open part of the prison and cells. I do not pretend to speak for all women. Nobody in the Chamber speaks for all women. Nevertheless, we can put in measures to deal with the issue, possibly including the repurposing of Murray House at Hydebank to house biological females who identify as transgender men, with something similar at Maghaberry and Magilligan for biological men who identify as female. However, intrinsically, I believe that biological males should be housed in a male prison and biological females should be housed in a female prison.

1,410 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Assessment

Flagged Gender, sexuality, abortion and related social issues

Jev’s structured answers

Assessed 21 October 2026 at 11:46 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

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