Debate contribution: The draft Climate Change (Carbon Budgets 2023-2037) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024

Debate contribution by Mr Andrew Muir on 10 December 2024.

MLA

Mr Andrew Muir

Party at the time

Alliance Party

Date

10 December 2024

Type

Debate contribution (made as a minister)

Business

Executive Committee Business

Heading

The draft Climate Change (Carbon Budgets 2023-2037) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 4715620

Read the official Assembly record

Text

I will respond to a number of points that were made in the debate. Hopefully, I will cover them all. Some of you queried why I have moved to set the targets in the 2040 target, and alleged that it was done too quickly, but I have followed each step of the process. The carbon budgets and the interim 2030 and 2040 targets have been publicly consulted upon. They have been to the Committee and the Executive. They have also been to the Examiner of Statutory Rules. Everyone here can, rightly, say that they have expressed their opinion and have had their say. The carbon budget regulations should have been set by the Assembly in December 2023. That is yet another example of the consequences of stop-go government. We have a legal duty to set the carbon budgets. That has been the case since 2022. By not setting those SRs, my Department is in breach of the law. Any further delay only adds to staff resourcing pressures and the legal costs of defending a missed deadline. It is hard to stand over that continued diversion of public-sector budget and resource when our public sector and departmental budgets are under so much pressure and we have the solution in front of us today. I have also heard the concerns around scrutiny. I remind Members that the CCC published its advice to Northern Ireland in March 2023. That was 21 months ago. It was when we did not have an Assembly. In the absence of the Assembly, my Department undertook a public consultation for over four months on the CCC's recommended figures. It provided illustrations of what those targets might mean so that people understood what decarbonisation means for each sector. Those who responded supported each of the pathways, consistently by over 70%. For some of the pathways, such as those on waste and recycling and improving the energy efficiency of houses and buildings, that support was over 80%. In May, the Department published two detailed reports analysing and presenting the findings from the consultation. Since I came into office, I have, in response to repeated questions from Members, provided updates on my progress on delivering the statutory requirements of the Act. I have been clear, and it is no surprise to anyone, that I will take advice from the CCC, just as my counterparts in the UK have done. No one should be surprised about that today.

Yes.

I am aware of the CCC's advice. It is clear, and it will put out a further statement tomorrow, about the urgent need to transition towards decarbonisation. If we go down the road of saying, "Sure Northern Ireland is quite small, so we can pass on that", that is a complete abdication of leadership. The Assembly voted unanimously for that legislation at Third Reading. I am doing this not only out of a moral responsibility to future generations in Northern Ireland and people across the world who are facing the consequences of climate change but out of the desire to grasp the opportunities. At the British-Irish Council last week, it was clear that people everywhere else are getting with this. We face the real possibility of losing that race. What does that mean? It means that we lose the opportunity for good, green jobs for people in Northern Ireland.

Some of the contributions today do a real disservice to agriculture. I know farmers across Northern Ireland who know about the impacts of climate change, because they deal with them day and daily. They are getting on board with the interventions that will give them the resilience to go into the future with confidence in their business. I come to the matter very positively because of where we can go. I am very grateful for the fact that I got agreement at the Executive to bring the SRs to the Assembly. Hopefully, we will pass them and be able to move on. I get people's concerns about the impact that carbon budgets might have on public finances. I know that the AERA Committee sought advice from RaISe on that, so people have asked those questions about it. However, people also need to understand the benefits of our making that investment. For example, investing in public transport may have benefits for us by reducing our greenhouse gas emissions, but — guess what? — it will also mean that people will be able to travel more quickly and easily around Northern Ireland and that there will not be as much congestion. It will also improve air quality. That relates to a just transition, because air quality often affects the most socially deprived people in Northern Ireland. I do not think that it is right for us to ask people to endure that. There are difficult decisions to be made. Maybe I am different, in that I am prepared not only to come to the Assembly, take difficult decisions and face up to it but to look at the issue in a positive fashion. The targets are there, and there is a legal obligation on us to take them forward. The next step is to bring forward the first climate action plan. Matthew O'Toole mentioned the climate action plan, and Robbie mentioned the fact that the preference was to have the plan alongside the carbon budgets. The issue is that we need to do the budgets before we do the climate action plan. Hopefully, soon after I get agreement on the budgets, we can consult on the plan and I can share with you all the detailed facts in the action plan and where we are going with it. I assure Members that any financial impacts will be dependent on normal budgetary decision-making. A process is in place to ensure that value for money is key and that the consideration of any policy, programme or project is part of that. Some of the costs of the cap will already be part of our existing programmes and budgets, as I outlined. For example, they relate to public transport and work that we are already doing. Some of the costs will relate to things that are already planned. For example, we have developed policies to reduce fuel poverty, improve infrastructure, strengthen our economy and deal with issues in our health budget. That all comes together as one joint collective action on climate change. It is key that we recognise those actions as investment in our public services and our communities, better air quality, reduced pollution, improved water quality and better public transport. Fewer cars on the road will also tackle congestion. It is about investment in warmer, more comfortable homes, in buildings that cost less to run and in greater energy security. It is about investment in shopping local and improving biodiversity. All of us have expressed our concerns about Lough Neagh and reducing our emissions. That is another strand of the action that we will take on climate change. It is about investing in improving the health outcomes for people who live in cold and damp houses and have to travel to work through congested traffic that causes pollution. They do not have the resilience that many of us have to deal with fluctuating fuel and energy costs. Setting the carbon budgets for the 2040 target is about investing in our economic future and sending the message to local and international businesses and investors that we have a stable and long-term commitment to decarbonisation and that we are forward-facing and ready to embrace new technologies and employment opportunities. In all the discussions about cost, let us remember that the UK impact assessment shows a £2·66 billion net present value benefit from reaching net zero. It is about putting it in context. Fundamentally, and this is a key point, doing nothing will cost us more. Carbon budgets and interim targets simply provide the trajectory to ensure that the actions that we take are gradual and fair. They mitigate the risk of having to take more radical action over shorter periods, which would result in significantly higher costs of mitigation and adaption measures and risk us losing out on economic and employment opportunities. In the absence of carbon budgets, all Departments will still have to meet the targets in the Act. We are also bound by the requirements of the UK's 2008 Act. The two SRs that I ask you to affirm are to give us the pathway. It is not about pressing pause. It is about moving towards the pathway and allowing us to start the journey so that we can do it gradually and bring people, communities and sectors with us in a fair and just manner. Now is not the time to reduce the pace. Folks, we have not even started the marathon yet. We are at the start line, and some people are saying that they want to go back to the hotel. We need to get on the road. We need to be able to do it, and we need to give people in Northern Ireland hope that we are confident about our future. I have also heard concerns about the level of our targets. I remind Members that the figures for carbon budgets that I have brought before the Assembly are reflective of the advice received from the CCC. Some Members have raised concerns about the net zero trajectory that we are on. The target was set over two years ago by the Assembly, but I remind Members that the CCC's advice has never said that Northern Ireland could not meet net zero. Indeed, its most recent, updated advice from 2023 confirms that we can meet our targets and provided us with a range of pathways to do so. That is why we will bring through the climate action plans. Some Members have told me, in my role as Minister, that the legislation is flawed and that the targets in the Act are too hard. Yet when I attended New York's Climate Week, our legislation was the envy of others. The strength of social justice runs right through it: there is a safety net provided by the required impact assessments, a focus on just transition, and a systems approach of focusing on nature-based solutions, embedding biodiversity and soil and air-quality targets alongside climate action. Let me be clear: I will not change the Act to remove our net zero target. I am convinced by the swaths of science, evidence and case studies that show the benefits and opportunities that will be created as we reduce our emissions and achieve net zero, and I do not want Northern Ireland to miss out. The impacts of climate change are clearly no longer confined to academic reports and research papers. As Members have said, we can see its impacts, the instability that it causes and the huge financial and economic pressures that it brings. I am not saying that it will be easy — I know that a marathon is hard: I have done 11 of them — but it is far from impossible. I have faith in this place; I have faith in the people of Northern Ireland; and I believe that we can do this. We have a strong history of innovation and problem-solving. In my Department, there is globally cutting-edge work on decarbonisation in the agriculture sector. Give farmers credit for the work that is being done: that sector is leading by example, and I am very proud of it. My Executive colleagues, across lead-sector Departments, have policies and programmes in place that work, and they are also working to develop future policies. The policies will not only reduce carbon but insulate homes, bring down people's bills, give us greater energy security and, with EVs, reduce air pollution. We have globally leading science and technology, and we have the chance to embrace future industries that will attract green investment and have real economic benefits.

I am going to respond to your point.

No problem, Robbie. I am happy to have had your intervention, and I will address your points. The key fundamental is the judicial review against my Department for not setting the carbon budgets, and that weighs on me. That is why it is important to do this, and I am grateful to the Business Committee for tabling the motions today for debate. Going forward, hopefully, we will not be subject to those judicial reviews as a result of our statutory obligations, and we will have that time for engagement.

The matter was brought to the Executive, and it received the Executive's approval. The Member will be aware that Executive business is confidential, and I hope that Members will be able to support the SRs in front of us today. Every day, I meet business people, people from rural communities, those in the energy sector and farming, and those who work in food production, transport and recycling. Many of those people are leading the way. They are already taking action, empowering and educating their communities. They look at our changing world, and they want to play their part. Many of them have committed and are already taking part in the journey towards net zero, but they are looking for clarity. They are looking to the Assembly to set the ambition and for the framework to deliver on climate and environmental action. For the sake of the future of people here, we owe it to all our young people to step up, play our part and start delivering for Northern Ireland. I hope that I have addressed your points. I have addressed the issues that you raised about the climate action plan, and we will bring forward that plan once we set the budgets. PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) recently released some research on green jobs, which I will send to you. That research gives us an understanding of from where growth is coming and the sectors involved.

The Member is moving ahead of himself. We will hopefully get the carbon budgets agreed today, but one of the next steps is to bring forward the climate action plan, get Executive agreement and then announce the green growth strategy. It is a cross-Executive strategy and is about securing good green jobs. I will be able to provide a bit more detail about that in the time ahead. I was at the British-Irish Council meeting last Friday, at which I updated the UK Prime Minister, the Taoiseach and the leaders of the devolved Administrations that are part of the British Isles on our plan for the green growth strategy. I made a very strong case that, once we get the strategy agreed, we should be looking towards having a green new deal. As Minister, I am very keen to work with my Executive colleagues to continue on the trajectory towards green growth and towards delivering those good green jobs. A lot of good work is therefore under way. I am making the pitch for Northern Ireland, and I will continue to do so. Achieving a just transition is absolutely key, and, when it is established, the just transition commission will be fundamental through its being able to give guidance and provide a scrutiny role. Its establishment is something else on which we have fallen behind. We were unable to progress the commission because of the lack of an Assembly. Some of the other contributions from Members referenced the impact of trade deals. The next debate, on the democratic consent motion, will perhaps elucidate that. One of the perceived benefits of Brexit has been trade deals that the UK has done with other parts of the world, but they are not to the benefit of Northern Ireland, as far as I am concerned, and particularly not to the benefit of farmers. It was bizarre to see the UK Government announce some of their trade deals during this year's Balmoral show. Matthew echoed my concerns about stop-go government and the impact that it has on so many aspects, including on what we are doing here setting the carbon budgets. He mentioned the climate commissioner. The Executive Office is progressing the establishment of that office. Tom Buchanan raised a number of issues. I will not engage in the climate change denial that he did. Climate change is a reality. We see it, and we would do well to follow the science and evidence. Mention was made of the threat to jobs and livelihoods. That threat is real if we do not take action to address climate change, and, today, I am giving the Assembly an opportunity to move forward. People in Northern Ireland, especially farmers, need leadership, and I am giving that in spades. They do not need people who are in denial about issues, and I am very much not in denial. I am very realistic about climate change. Most importantly, the Prime Minister of the UK said very clearly to the British-Irish Council that climate change is for real and that there will be devastating consequences if we do not act on achieving net zero. We have the single biggest opportunity of our time. It is a global race, and many are getting in the race. We in the UK have advantages, particularly when it comes to skills, but we should not just be in the race. Rather, we should be looking to win it. A just transition requires an active Government, and being active is what I am doing today. The Taoiseach, Simon Harris, said at the British-Irish Council meeting that climate change is a scientific reality. A just transition is not just about growing our economy but about raising living standards in a just way. The First Minister of Scotland spoke about the need to give policy certainty and the importance of not leaving anyone behind. I do not seek to leave anyone behind. I seek to give leadership on the issue, and I seek to follow the leadership that many other people are demonstrating. Many businesses in Northern Ireland are getting on the road towards net zero and decarbonisation. Many have signed up to Business in the Community's climate action pledge: companies such as ABP Food Group, Almac, Belfast Harbour Commissioners, Danske Bank, Encirc, the Galgorm Group, GRAHAM, the Henry Group, Hughes Insurance, Northern Ireland Water, Translink and Wrightbus. Let us join them on that path. Let us show leadership and move towards net zero.

3,068 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Assessment

Not flagged

Jev’s structured answers

Assessed 21 October 2026 at 11:45 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

Disagree with this assessment?

Classifications can be challenged. A person reads every challenge, and any change is recorded publicly above with its reason.

Challenge this classification