Debate contribution: Justice Bill: Consideration Stage

Debate contribution by Ms Claire Sugden on 16 June 2026.

MLA

Ms Claire Sugden

Party at the time

Independent

Date

16 June 2026

Type

Debate contribution

Business

Executive Committee Business

Heading

Justice Bill: Consideration Stage

Assembly identifier

Official Report component 5625047

Read the official Assembly record

Text

It is aye or no, but I do not have the context to go down the route of saying aye. I will go through the No Lobby when we vote, but, if I were to have the context that neither you nor the Executive have provided, I might go through the Aye Lobby. We can change our mind if information is available. I think that you said that Mr Frew's position may be movable, yet now you say that mine is not, because it is either yes or no. I have spoken to the various children's sector organisations and said to them, "I'm movable on this, but provide me with data and information". It is not about rehashing reports but about doing it from an Executive perspective. Minister, I will keep reiterating the point that you need Executive support, and I do not think that you have it. I know that you do not have it, because the amendment is a Back-Bench amendment. I will move on to speaking about victims. There is the uncomfortable reality that some children commit extremely serious offences. Victims do not experience less harm because the person responsible is a particular age. The families of lost loved ones do not suffer less because the offender is a child. Communities affected by serious violence do not experience that harm any less. That does not mean that children should be treated as adults — far from it — but it does mean that any reform must carefully balance the developmental needs of a child, the rights of victims and the need to maintain public confidence in the justice system. If children as young as 10 are committing serious offences, as I said at the start, we have a serious problem. I feel that we are approaching the end of that problem rather than the beginning. I know that you agree with me, Minister, because I have heard you say it in other debates. This did not begin in your Department. It began long before a child ever came near it. Members will point to jurisdictions where the age of criminal responsibility is higher. That is fair, but are those comparisons useful if we are not willing to look at them in the context in which those jurisdictions operate? What interventions and support services exist there? What resources are available? What responsibilities are placed on other Departments? What outcomes have been achieved? Is all of that together in one report? Is it something that the Executive are taking forward? If we are to start importing a number — I will come to the specific number in a minute — we must be prepared to examine whether we have the structures in place that make that number work. I have listened carefully to the debate on whether the age should be 12, 14 or 16. To be honest, I come back to the same conclusion, which is that the age does not matter to me as much as the conversation about how we support the change, should we make it. Where is the evidence for Northern Ireland, not the evidence from jurisdictions across Europe and not necessarily the evidence from Scotland? Where is the evidence for our particular context, in which we have a siloed Government and Ministers around the Executive table who cannot agree? How can we drive such an important policy change if we do not have the commitment from the people who are responsible for driving it? Where is the work on examining the capacity of our systems to respond? What is the assessment of the additional support that will be required? We are being asked to vote on a number, and I am asking what sits behind that number. If we cannot answer that question, are we ready to make the change? For me, it comes down to context, readiness and preparedness. As a Back-Bench Member whose job it is to scrutinise the Executive, I think those are valid questions. It is not simply a case of yes or no but a case how we do it. That is what I am asking.

I am not hearing the conversations; I hear, "Let's raise this, and everything else will follow". Forgive me, given my experience of being in the Chamber for 12 years, for not trusting the Executive to follow through on the things that they promise us. That comes from seeing failure after failure. I come back to the need to understand why children offend. It is about preventing offending and ensuring that, when intervention is needed, that support is there. I hope that people listening to my contribution see the matter from that perspective. I came into the Chamber having made my feelings about this clear in conversations with Members and the sector. I will be honest: I am still not convinced by this. If I am not convinced, how do we convince the public? How do we convince the people we represent? How do we convince the services on the ground, given the things that their staff tell me? I appreciate that that is anecdotal — that is my experience — and that others may have experience of other parts of Northern Ireland, but I am one of 90 MLAs and, I am sure, others have had the same experience. We need to iron that out, but we should do so before we reach the point at which we potentially vote for it. Convince me. Genuinely, I am probably the most movable person on the issue, because I agree with the proposal in principle. However, agreeing with it in principle is different from agreeing with it in practice, and, as legislators, we have a responsibility to look at it in practice. Otherwise, what is the point of examining legislation?

966 words. Text as published by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Assessment

Not flagged

Jev’s structured answers

Assessed 21 October 2026 at 15:57 UTC by jev-1.13.0 (requested as typesafe/jev) under rubric 2026.10-r9, methodology 1.9.

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